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Post by SeriouslyStupid on Jul 3, 2002 21:31:24 GMT -5
Ummm, we are talking about the Pete that tries to race miatas in his fast 996TT at the drivers ed events right??? Peter Faglin right? Drives an automatic 996TT, right??? Come on Seriously Stupid. E. J. I don't spend nearly as much time on the boards are you guys do, so I don't know Pete. All I'm saying is that you don't have definitive evidence...plus he didn't hurt anyone, so what's the problem? If he did blow thru traffic at 162 and killed some innocent person, that would be different.
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 3, 2002 22:17:55 GMT -5
Maybe it'll be your kid next time, or even worse for Pete - mine.
"But I am only going to smoke this crack pipe once - promise. It won't hurt anyone."
Q - What did one Southwest pilot say to the other?
A - "Let's go get drunk before we fly this plane full of 100 innocent people to Las Vegas. Won't hurt anything."
Quote from NY Detective now in jail for a long time: "I didn't mean to kill anyone when I drove home drunk and ran over and killed 5 members of the same family. Really I didn't."
I could go on - even about street racing. How about the dumb asses in LA a few nights ago that street raced and 3 of the four ended up dead. Think they meant to kill each other? Just wondering.
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Post by SeriouslyStupid on Jul 4, 2002 0:37:51 GMT -5
Maybe it'll be your kid next time, or even worse for Pete - mine. "But I am only going to smoke this crack pipe once - promise. It won't hurt anyone." Q - What did one Southwest pilot say to the other? A - "Let's go get drunk before we fly this plane full of 100 innocent people to Las Vegas. Won't hurt anything." Quote from NY Detective now in jail for a long time: "I didn't mean to kill anyone when I drove home drunk and ran over and killed 5 members of the same family. Really I didn't." I could go on - even about street racing. How about the dumb asses in LA a few nights ago that street raced and 3 of the four ended up dead. Think they meant to kill each other? Just wondering. And of course YOU'VE NEVER speeded in your car and you are a model driver, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating street racing or driving like an idiot, but if you're on a deserted highway an the only person in danger is yourself...you get the point. There are times and places to drive fast and really use the potential of a Porsche. If you and "serious" really want to go hogwild, just get on to BMWM5.com and flame away on the gumball3000 forum. People were driving at 200MPH across the USA in everything from Ferrari F50s to RUF R Turbos. Enjoy!
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 4, 2002 6:44:48 GMT -5
There are times and places to drive fast and really use the potential of a Porsche. Well, we agree on something - ITS CALLED THE TRACK OR THE AUTOBAHN. I go to the track quite a bit where I get all that speed out of my system. If I lived in Germany, I would go to the autobahn in the middle of the night - its too crowded during the day. Oh yea, I forgot this point - have you ever talked to a German to find out how hard it is to get a license there? Well driving aint a right but a priveledge there and you have to go through some serious training before you get a liscense. So when all the drivers on the highway are safer than 98% of the TOTAL US driver population, it's a safer environment for high speed cruising. But you better believe that where they do have speed limits they are obeyed, and DWI, forget about it. You lose your license right away for that. No BS slap on the hand and community service like here. These things are very serious over there. I knew it would come to the "you have never driven fast in your car" argument because I have come to expect that from yuppie neuveau 996 drivers. You think you get the car so you are automatically safe, better than everyone else and the laws dont apply to you. Do you know or care about Porsche history? NO! All you worry about is when the turbo cab is coming out so you can drive a little faster on the street. "Why is my car slower than a cheap Corvette" should become your battle cry. As for the Gumball, that was a joke and an event. I know two guys from Germany who drove in it and it was all fun and games for them. But that's not what were here to discuss. Let's get back to Pete's irresponsible and reckless behavior. Oh and to answer your dumbass question, I have never gone anywhere NEAR that fast on the street, not even remotely close. If a driver knew anything about going fast, he would know that there is in fact a big difference between 120 and 160 in terms of closing speeds, braking distances, and overall handling. I just wouldn't expect any 996 driver with his head in the sand to know any of that because you are better than everyone else.
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RobC
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Post by RobC on Jul 4, 2002 9:21:13 GMT -5
Without debating the correctness of Pete's actions I do want to set a few things straight about Germany, because I do in fact live in Germany and have for the 11 of the last 14 years.
I find it extremely hypocritical for E.J. to critizise Pete for his high speed escapade on a public road in US, and then suggest that he would do the same in Germany on the autobahn. HELLO! The autobahn is a public road as well! I thought the issue was SAFETY, not LEGALITY. Even at 2 or 3AM there is enough traffic to be considered very dangerous.
Concerning the "privelege" of driving I would argue that it is also a privilege in the US. If it were a "right" you would not even need a license. Whether process to get that license is hard or easy, driving is always a privilege. As for the "serious training" the Germans receive, it is about the equivalent of a high school driver's education course. I can't say that I would call that "serious".
I wouldn't necessarily call them safer either. A safe driver is generally one that doesn't tend to panic when an unexpected situation arises. My experience is that you either have this ability or you don't. I don't think you can learn not to panic. Maybe some physicologists would argue this point.
What is safer in Germany are the vehicles. What makes high speed driving difficult for most US vehicles are their extremely soft suspensions. Let a dog run across the highway when you are going 75MPH in something like a big Lincoln or your typical mini-van, and most drivers will have trouble getting the car back under control following the quick steering input required to avoid the animal.
As far as this comment is concerned: "But you better believe that where they do have speed limits they are obeyed"... I can only laugh hysterically. Germans aren't any better behaved than Americans when it comes to obeying the speed limit. If you believe they are, you are only fooling yourself. In fact I find the Germans considerably more aggressive than American drivers (at least more agressive than Orlando, FL and Atlanta, GA drivers). That said I don't necessarily consider "aggressive" to mean "worse".
DWI laws are probably a little tougher than in the US, but still not tough enough in my opinion. I am in favor of ANY infraction being a life long license suspension.
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Post by SeriouslyStupid on Jul 4, 2002 21:30:47 GMT -5
If a driver knew anything about going fast, he would know that there is in fact a big difference between 120 and 160 in terms of closing speeds, braking distances, and overall handling. I just wouldn't expect any 996 driver with his head in the sand to know any of that because you are better than everyone else. Well duh...you state the obvious. And you also assume that you're the only one here with track experience. Give it a rest already. Sure sounds like you have a bad opinion of 996 drivers...get passed by them a bit too often at the track?
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Post by SeriousDriver on Jul 4, 2002 22:35:40 GMT -5
Let's review:
1) SS says Petey may not live in California. SD says his address is 5187 XXXXXX XXXXX Drive Zip 94517 Phone 925-6XX-76XX I know what all the X's are. Just no need to publish that info here.
2) SS says I don't have enough evidence for CHP. SD says "Read my lips" or shoud that be "Read my posts".
3) SS says driving fast and having fun are not a problem. SD says - That may or may not be true but you missed the main point. Petey was drving at very high speeds while TAKING A PICTURE OF HIS DASH. In the few seconds of distraction he has travelled 700-800 feet. Yet you, SS, argue he was not being dangerous.
4) SS attacks asking if we have ever "speeded". Sd says - I have sped, not sure I have "speeded", but nothing like Petey - 160+ mph while taking pictures. I reserve my real speed for the track.
5) SS says he has track experience. SD asks - Petey in his 996TT is slower than a stock Miata. How about you SS? What are your credentials and some lap times?
BTW - You are next for my information gathering. You should be pretty easy to find in Seattle. I already have some files I found on your PC and will look at them in a couple of days. Don't worry, I didn't delete any of those gay bath house pics, nor did I copy them - I am not into that scene. Is that you in the photos?
I have minimum intelligence requirements for who I interact with on these boards. I regret to inform you, SS, that you have failed the test, so no more SD posts for you . Don't worry though, I will forward all the details I learn about you to EJ. He will continue to talk to you - his standards are lower than mine.
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Post by SeriouslyStupid on Jul 5, 2002 1:40:10 GMT -5
Let's review: 1) SS says Petey may not live in California. SD says his address is 5187 XXXXXX XXXXX Drive Zip 94517 Phone 925-6XX-76XX I know what all the X's are. Just no need to publish that info here. 2) SS says I don't have enough evidence for CHP. SD says "Read my lips" or shoud that be "Read my posts". 3) SS says driving fast and having fun are not a problem. SD says - That may or may not be true but you missed the main point. Petey was drving at very high speeds while TAKING A PICTURE OF HIS DASH. In the few seconds of distraction he has travelled 700-800 feet. Yet you, SS, argue he was not being dangerous. 4) SS attacks asking if we have ever "speeded". Sd says - I have sped, not sure I have "speeded", but nothing like Petey - 160+ mph while taking pictures. I reserve my real speed for the track. 5) SS says he has track experience. SD asks - Petey in his 996TT is slower than a stock Miata. How about you SS? What are your credentials and some lap times? BTW - You are next for my information gathering. You should be pretty easy to find in Seattle. I already have some files I found on your PC and will look at them in a couple of days. Don't worry, I didn't delete any of those gay bath house pics, nor did I copy them - I am not into that scene. Is that you in the photos? I have minimum intelligence requirements for who I interact with on these boards. I regret to inform you, SS, that you have failed the test, so no more SD posts for you . Don't worry though, I will forward all the details I learn about you to EJ. He will continue to talk to you - his standards are lower than mine. BWAAHHHA HAHAHAHAHA... You are just too funny. Nice cop out by the way "min intelligence requirements." C'mon, this is fun, isn't it? I thought this was your life? Please, report me to the police if you like. I've speeded in the past. (Gasp, on public highways no less!) Give them all the info you find on me. I'm shaking...no, really, I am. Pete and I will cower together in the garage waiting for our imminent arrest. BTW, where the hell did you get Seattle from? You're just a few miles off. Close though! You're obviously easier to fool than I thought.
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 5, 2002 6:18:45 GMT -5
Hey Stupid, nowhere did I assume I was the only here with track experience. In fact I have far less track experience than some other posters here.
As for getting passed by 996s, I do find that a well driven 996 will get past my lowly 272hp 993. Doesn't bother me at all to be honest, since I know if I was driving the 996, I would be about 4 seconds per lap faster than most 996 drivers anyway.
Guys like you will never learn that its the driver and not the car. Why do you think Pete can't keep up with stock Miata's with his 450 hp 996TT? Can you?
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 5, 2002 6:30:35 GMT -5
Concerning the "privelege" of driving I would argue that it is also a privilege in the US. If it were a "right" you would not even need a license. Whether process to get that license is hard or easy, driving is always a privilege. As for the "serious training" the Germans receive, it is about the equivalent of a high school driver's education course. I can't say that I would call that "serious". Well Rob, thanx for clarifying this issue for me. It appears that since I was last stationed in the Fulda Gap (as a Sniper) with my Ranger Battallion, the laws have been relaxed. Glad to see that the US is not the only country growing mindless bad drivers.
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Post by FixedWing on Jul 6, 2002 5:46:02 GMT -5
A safe driver is generally one that doesn't tend to panic when an unexpected situation arises. My experience is that you either have this ability or you don't. I don't think you can learn not to panic. Maybe some physicologists would argue this point. I can pretty much confirm everything that RobC says. German drivers tend to be better drivers because they are more disciplined. They are more disciplined because they have to be. But there is also all of the same b.s. there that you find elsewhere. For example, I think that I'm more likely to experience "road rage" in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. They also exceed posted limits like crazy (but tend to do it outside of the city limits where they won't get caught ... just like everyone else). I think Rob's point quoted above is an interesting one. I don't happen to agree. I do think that this can be taught. I don't think anyone is presently doing anything that tries to teach it however. Maybe aviation offers some better examples? S.
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Post by FixedWing on Jul 6, 2002 8:47:45 GMT -5
BTW - You are next for my information gathering. You should be pretty easy to find in Seattle. I already have some files I found on your PC and will look at them in a couple of days. Don't worry, I didn't delete any of those gay bath house pics, nor did I copy them - I am not into that scene. Is that you in the photos? Dear SD, You are being quite critical of others for not respecting our laws but are you not aware that accessing computers without the owner's permission, invading their privacy and making threats is criminal behavior? These are felonies with Serious jail time attached to them. Don't you see an incongruity here? [To the owners of this board: You may want to consider your legal exposure in allowing this person to use your board to undertake these activities.] S.
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 7, 2002 8:06:02 GMT -5
Fixed Wing,
Seems to me that SD is just following through on what you and Stupid and even Petey think: "is it really breaking the law if you don't get caught?"
Going by you and your friends logic, is SD really causing any harm? He's not going to physically harm you when he cracks into your computer and finds your personal info. He's not going to harm your kids by doing this either. Just like driving 170 mph on a deserted road, right? Not going to hurt anyone right?
I find it a little funny and ironic that when reckless behavior is directed at you specifically you get all upset and worried and start quoting the law and stuff. But when it won't hurt anyone (at least not anyone you know) it's okay to do it.
Should we call this the 996 double standard? You guys have double standards about other stuff right? Speeding and street racing seem to be fine since you have a 996. Why would hacking be any different?
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Post by SeriouslyStupid on Jul 7, 2002 13:51:36 GMT -5
Fixed Wing, Seems to me that SD is just following through on what you and Stupid and even Petey think: "is it really breaking the law if you don't get caught?" Going by you and your friends logic, is SD really causing any harm? He's not going to physically harm you when he cracks into your computer and finds your personal info. He's not going to harm your kids by doing this either. Just like driving 170 mph on a deserted road, right? Not going to hurt anyone right? I find it a little funny and ironic that when reckless behavior is directed at you specifically you get all upset and worried and start quoting the law and stuff. But when it won't hurt anyone (at least not anyone you know) it's okay to do it. Should we call this the 996 double standard? You guys have double standards about other stuff right? Speeding and street racing seem to be fine since you have a 996. Why would hacking be any different? The difference, Serious, or E.J. (same difference,right?) is that cracking into someone's machine IS directed at someone. That's like breaking into someone's house whereas speeding on a deserted highway all by youself has only the potential to harm yourself. You've really just shot yourself in the foot.
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E. J.
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Post by E. J. on Jul 7, 2002 15:47:32 GMT -5
speeding on a deserted highway all by youself has only the potential to harm yourself. Or your passenger, a driver going the other way, a kid crossing the street, a family dog doing the same, or a whole family when you lose control so badly and your PSM cant help and you end up in someone's living room killing a whoel family watching Nick at Night. Don't laugh - each one of these things has happened numerous times in our great, free country. Sorry Stupid, but you live up to your name with each and every post. I just want want to know when are you self-centered, me-generation asshole 996 drivers going to wake up and realize that it's NEVER only you on the road? How many times do innocent people have to die at the hands of drivers like you who think it's only their life in danger when they drive 150 mph on public roads? Sure, you might get away with it this time, and maybe next time, and hell, maybe even every time, but that one time you don't, you will wish you had listened. And I will be laughing at your balled up 996 and crying for the family you just shattered.
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